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Post by Radiant Magnificence Alastair on Jan 30, 2011 9:08:26 GMT -5
I come from a home where anything fantasy related is abhorred, things like monsters, magic etc. Even simple cartoons like Pokemon are satanic in my families eyes. Although they have a few illogical exceptions like Lord of the Rings, because their pastor has talked about it before. And because I'm a massive gamer nerd, I'm often accused of bringing evil into the home with most of the games I play. a-voice-in-wilderness.blogspot.com/2010/01/fantasy-satans-deception.htmlIs it really that evil? Unbiblical? I usually just lol when I hear things like this, I just can't fathom the mindset. Does it mean that Christians aren't supposed to like any fiction at all (lol)? |
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Post by Azrael on Jan 30, 2011 16:15:35 GMT -5
I come from a home where anything fantasy related is abhorred, things like monsters, magic etc. Even simple cartoons like Pokemon are satanic in my families eyes. Although they have a few illogical exceptions like Lord of the Rings, because their pastor has talked about it before. And because I'm a massive gamer nerd, I'm often accused of bringing evil into the home with most of the games I play. a-voice-in-wilderness.blogspot.com/2010/01/fantasy-satans-deception.htmlIs it really that evil? Unbiblical? I usually just lol when I hear things like this, I just can't fathom the mindset. Does it mean that Christians aren't supposed to like any fiction at all (lol)? Protectionism is an age-old gig that has been shielding weak ideas from destruction since the beginning of time. It's why the Roman Catholic church kept Bibles in Latin. It's why current scientific articles validating irreducible complexity get axed before publication. Now, the churches that believe Harry Potter is Satan incarnate probably hate the Catholic church and Science, but they do it too. The idea is that, rather than buying Harry Potter, you'll buy the nice Christian-approved books like Left Behind (despite the fact Rowling is a Christian, albeit a bit liberal). If you like Britney Spears, you'll listen to Rebbecca St. James. This should start to show you why Christian fiction and music really really suck as a whole. The church likes to centralize power. It doesn't like surrendering responsibility to the individuals who go to the church. They don't think you are capable of reading Harry Potter without it destroying your faith, so they keep it out of your hands. Ironically, by refusing to allow kids to develop "intellectual muscles" by probing opposing ideas, the church ensures that most will be unfit to defend themselves when they finally do meet these ideas. They point to the people that they lose from one form of extermism to the next in order to justify their next book-burning, saying things like "Well Lisa Jones started reading them Harry Potter books and she became a Wiccan." Well, that's not surprising. She went from one bat-$#!% extreme to another, but this time it was because she finally had a choice. Part of it is commercialism. Christian artists don't make money when they're forced to compete against talented non-Christians. I personally despise worship music. Every time I'm at a service with it, I feel my hand itching for a rotten tomato. One of the above pastors might say this "evil influence" is a product of my listening to thoughtful folk music like Damien Rice and William Fitzsimmons that isn't church-approved. And, well I guess they'd be right. Listening to good artists destroyed my ability to cope with crappy music. Christian contemporary worship will never be able to satisfy me again. It's a bunch of scared people. They're scared to test their faiths. They don't want to confront this, so they'll do everything in their power to keep you from testing yours. They're scared for their bank-accounts and what would happen if they had to measure music alongside talented music. They want to go back to the way things were when the Church dominated every part of life and you didn't have to think. The priest did all of your thinking for you. |
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Post by davo on Jan 30, 2011 16:39:30 GMT -5
I come from a home where anything fantasy related is abhorred, things like monsters, magic etc. Even simple cartoons like Pokemon are satanic in my families eyes. Although they have a few illogical exceptions like Lord of the Rings, because their pastor has talked about it before. And because I'm a massive gamer nerd, I'm often accused of bringing evil into the home with most of the games I play. a-voice-in-wilderness.blogspot.com/2010/01/fantasy-satans-deception.htmlIs it really that evil? Unbiblical? I usually just lol when I hear things like this, I just can't fathom the mindset. Does it mean that Christians aren't supposed to like any fiction at all (lol)? Protectionism is an age-old gig that has been shielding weak ideas from destruction since the beginning of time. It's why the Roman Catholic church kept Bibles in Latin. It's why current scientific articles validating irreducible complexity get axed before publication. Now, the churches that believe Harry Potter is Satan incarnate probably hate the Catholic church and Science, but they do it too. The idea is that, rather than buying Harry Potter, you'll buy the nice Christian-approved books like Left Behind (despite the fact Rowling is a Christian, albeit a bit liberal). If you like Britney Spears, you'll listen to Rebbecca St. James. This should start to show you why Christian fiction and music really really suck as a whole. The church likes to centralize power. It doesn't like surrendering responsibility to the individuals who go to the church. They don't think you are capable of reading Harry Potter without it destroying your faith, so they keep it out of your hands. Ironically, by refusing to allow kids to develop "intellectual muscles" by probing opposing ideas, the church ensures that most will be unfit to defend themselves when they finally do meet these ideas. They point to the people that they lose from one form of extermism to the next in order to justify their next book-burning, saying things like "Well Lisa Jones started reading them Harry Potter books and she became a Wiccan." Well, that's not surprising. She went from one bat-$#!% extreme to another, but this time it was because she finally had a choice. Part of it is commercialism. Christian artists don't make money when they're forced to compete against talented non-Christians. I personally despise worship music. Every time I'm at a service with it, I feel my hand itching for a rotten tomato. One of the above pastors might say this "evil influence" is a product of my listening to thoughtful folk music like Damien Rice and William Fitzsimmons that isn't church-approved. And, well I guess they'd be right. Listening to good artists destroyed my ability to cope with crappy music. Christian contemporary worship will never be able to satisfy me again. It's a bunch of scared people. They're scared to test their faiths. They don't want to confront this, so they'll do everything in their power to keep you from testing yours. They're scared for their bank-accounts and what would happen if they had to measure music alongside talented music. They want to go back to the way things were when the Church dominated every part of life and you didn't have to think. The priest did all of your thinking for you. I was going to post something about Rowling being a Christian, but you beat me to it. I remember my dad telling me years ago (must have been 12 years or so) that D&D was evil and I shouldn't play it, but basically his reasoning was that it was because it had spellcasting and magic in it, and would lead to me looking into wicca and neo-paganism. I didn't agree with him at all, viewed it as just a game, and continued to go round to my friend's house most Saturday afternoons to play. I had an old youth pastor tell me something similar, around the same time about Warhammer/WH40K, but I had other friends who were Christians who were also playing, and I regularly played D&D/Warhammer with, and didn't see why I shouldn't either - after all they're just games, and there's a massive Tolkein influence on all of it anyway. Most contemporary "worship" music is terrible, and I can't listen to it either. |
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Post by Azrael on Jan 30, 2011 16:49:33 GMT -5
Ah, I remember Warhammer. 40k was glorious. And it was a bit Biblical, afterall. It's a bit tough to miss the symbolism between the Emperor and Horus.
And there were a number of Christian figures that had a strong interest in the Occult. There's Tolkein, Newton, Yeats (yes, he was a Christian), C.S. Lewis, William Blake, and TS Eliot for starters. People often tend to forget that.
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Post by Maarten on Jan 31, 2011 13:57:10 GMT -5
Does it mean that Christians aren't supposed to like any fiction at all (lol)? While you rightly lol at the suggestion of abhorring all fiction per definition, I do think fiction, or rather entertainment in general, has taken up a far too great position in modern society. Here's a quote from an essay by Tozer, who probably explains it better than I would do. See lovestthoume-outofthefire.blogspot.com/2009/04/great-god-of-entertainment-aw-tozer.html for the entire essay. In my experience such issues are most prominent with fantasy related things. Take WOW for an example. Now I know people can get equally obsessed with other non-fantasy related games, or any form of entertainment for that matter, however, in my experience, it does appear to be most prevalent with fantasy. Another reason why one may be weary about fantasy is that it's rather weird for a Christian to feel attracted to some of the darker and more occult themes that are featured in some of the fantasy. Why, when you're all saved and redeemed and walking with God and stuff, would you enjoy entertainment that features dark and occult themes, which are supposed to be contrary to the very nature of a Christian? Now, I don't think that means that fantasy is per definition satanic or you playing fantasy related games brings evil into the house. But perhaps a slightly careful attittude towards such things may be appropriate for Christians. |
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Post by Paul on Jan 31, 2011 18:21:08 GMT -5
I think this applies
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Post by Maarten on Feb 1, 2011 3:02:47 GMT -5
I'm attracted to the bible, and it features lots of those things, heck the bible even has Satan in the Bible (the Bible must be satanic!)! Can you see how stupid that sounds? Just because something features those things, doesn't mean that the artwork (entertainment) is necessarily about enjoying those specific things. For instance, one of my favourite games is Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi where it features violence and destruction, but what I find most enjoyable is the wonderful aesthetics, the test of your dexterity and the incredible satisfaction of mastering extremely difficult challenges. Ah, I think we have a misunderstanding. As you said yourself; you are not attracted to the destruction and violence of the game right? I didn't say all games that have a dark or occult or violent theme in it are wrong; I said, for a Chistian, it is weird to be attracted to these thing. I'm perfectly aware that for a lot, maybe most, gaming isn't about that at all. I like LOTR, but not because of the magic and monsters, I simply enjoy the story and stuff. I like the bible, but not because Satan is in it, but because it is the word of God, you like Kizuna Jigoku Tachi, but not because of the violence and destruction, but because you like mastering the difficult chalanges. My point was that a lot of people in our culture do seem to be attracted to the occult and violent themes in games and entertainment in general and as Christians it might be appropriate to watch out for that a little bit. I admit I might've worded that better in the post you quoted though. |
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Post by crazedshredder on Feb 5, 2011 1:37:29 GMT -5
Most Christians get so caught up in that crap that they don't realize how corrupted their own hearts really are. Most of us generally focus too much on others sins.
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Post by behemoth on Feb 6, 2011 19:51:24 GMT -5
Most Christians get so caught up in that crap that they don't realize how corrupted their own hearts really are. Most of us generally focus too much on others sins. Agreed. Also let us not forget that everyone likes a good scapegoat. It would seem a particularly powerful thread in the American identity due to its over-emphasis on rampant individualism is the need to cast blame for all of our problems on the "other" which can be another person, a belief or idea (i.e. blame the Communists), or on "the corruption of the entertainment industry." Kids didn't turn out the way we wanted them to? Blame it on all that "fantasy-sci-fy-Devil-stuff" that they like, rather than acknowledging that more often than not parents in our society aren't actively involved in their children's lives. The whole "blame whatever" tendency is not new, nor will it go away, because we are uncomfortable with anything that makes us responsible and or guilty in anyway. That and we are subconsciously afraid that our weak and crumbly faith will be destroyed if we read a book. |
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Post by conner on Feb 9, 2011 22:05:56 GMT -5
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
J.K. Rowling is a Christian? Or is she just a Christian in the way Kanye West is a Christian?
EDIT:
"The truth is that, like Graham Greene, my faith is sometimes that my faith will return. It's something I struggle with a lot," she revealed. "On any given moment if you asked me [if] I believe in life after death, I think if you polled me regularly through the week, I think I would come down on the side of yes — that I do believe in life after death. [But] it's something that I wrestle with a lot. It preoccupies me a lot, and I think that's very obvious within the books."
Well, she's not exactly confident in her beliefs haha
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Post by zaoman32 on Jun 20, 2011 21:18:40 GMT -5
I don't think fantasy is wrong. The bible clearly says that whoever believes in Jesus Christ is saved. That's a promise. His biggest requests are for us to have no other God before Him, and to love eachother. At the same time the bible acknowledges that not one person is righteous.
To brand something to be evil because you think it is right or wrong is a complete misdirection of the essence of salvation. We're saved because God loves us, and promises us life if we believe in Him. We're not saved by trying to avoid evil, that is impossible, we all get attacked every day by something. What is important is that we remember Gods promise of our salvation, and try to serve Him as our only God.
And as an afterthought I think the misqoutation of the bible verse calling witchcraft evil, comes into play here. Fantasy is not all evil. Just because wizards and witches are presented in a ficitonal format doesn't make it evil. I think the bible was referring to actual witchcraft and wicca, something that does not derive power from God. And it's a personal conviction. Some people are weak and can be seduced into something like witchcraft easily through fictional stories, while others will have no problem with it.
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Post by Maarten on Jun 21, 2011 5:41:36 GMT -5
We're not saved by trying to avoid evil, that is impossible, we all get attacked every day by something. What is important is that we remember Gods promise of our salvation, and try to serve Him as our only God. If anybody is genuinely saved he shall be passionate about avoiding evil. James 2:17 "In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." 1 John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." (btw, I don't mean to say that fantasy is evil, I do however strongly disagree with the notion that trying to avoid evil is not important) |
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Post by zaoman32 on Jun 21, 2011 14:49:58 GMT -5
I guess I worded myself wrong. I was more referencing to people who focus on avoiding evil. Our focus should be on God. I strongly feel if we have God in us, and we pursue Him and ONLY Him, then avoiding evil will be second nature.
Staying on topic though, I again feel this is a situation requiring personal discernment.
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Post by Maarten on Jun 22, 2011 8:17:46 GMT -5
By it being second nature, do you mean avoiding evil is more of a passive thing for the true believer? The bible does clearly teach us to actively work in pursuing holiness and even in pursuing salvation. (I'm not talking about a works salvation, I'm saying that a man whom God has called through the Spirit and saved by grace through faith shall passionately seek God in - amongst other things - actively pursuing a holy life through the power of the Spirit, motivated by the glory and grace of God, revealed to him by the free gift of salvation.) "Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work[ out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfil his good purpose" (Philipians 2:12-13) Staying on topic though (  ) I believe we shouldn't so much mindlessly condemn all fantasy, fiction, or any modern media for that matter; TV, games, internet, music, whatever, but rather take great care not to indulge in the worldly things, presented to us through these modern media. |
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Post by zaoman32 on Jun 22, 2011 10:30:52 GMT -5
By it being second nature, do you mean avoiding evil is more of a passive thing for the true believer? If our pursuit is holiness and righteousness that's an avoidance of evil. I guess what I'm saying is people focus simply on avoiding evil, that shouldn't be the focus, the focus should be righteousness. If you pursue that and keep your heart after Gods heart you will avoid evil. It just seems to me here, that the parents are being legalistic. (I apologize if that sounds really mean, I don't mean to come across that way, my parents were legalistic when I was growing up but were still good parents and christians.) In a way they have a point some fantasy is steeped in actual witchcraft, and that is not something you want to make a part of you, but again it is a matter of discernment. I can read some fantasy and think it is fine like Harry Potter, and LOTR, but other fantasy I have started reading just gave me a bad feeling and I couldn't read it anymore. |
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) I believe we shouldn't so much mindlessly condemn all fantasy, fiction, or any modern media for that matter; TV, games, internet, music, whatever, but rather take great care not to indulge in the worldly things, presented to us through these modern media.