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Post by conner on Feb 9, 2011 18:06:31 GMT -5
I'm gonna guess you started listening to mewithoutYou again, I remember you saying you were done with them or something to that effect a while back.
What did you stop listening to? What are you listening to now? WHY DON'T YOU HAVE FACEBOOK?!?
And I agree 100% about the idolatry thing. But I think most of the people that say that don't really live for music, they're just insecure/unsure of what they actually live for and think that's a more socially acceptable thing to say.
Here's a quote that's pretty relevant to the thread
"You cannot play with the animal in you without becoming wholly animal, play with falsehood without forfeiting your right to truth, play with cruelty without losing your sensitivity of mind. He who wants to keep his garden tidy doesn't reserve a plot for weeds." - Dag Hammarskjold
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Post by Paul on Feb 9, 2011 18:32:27 GMT -5
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Post by Josh on Feb 9, 2011 18:41:41 GMT -5
I listen to most of my music for entertainment and fun. I only listen to a select few bands for the lyrics.
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Post by conner on Feb 9, 2011 18:41:49 GMT -5
YES WE ARE FRIENDS NOW HOORAY
What bothers you about Allah, Allah, Allah? I haven't really had a problem with any of their lyrics (I think!), though I remember in an interview Aaron said something about the books Paul wrote as "just letters" and I was like "lolwuuuuut".
And I totally understand what you mean about AJJ (though I never listened to them), I've had the same thing with Kanye West, and now that I think about it pretty much all rap I listen(ed) to.
Again, I totally understand what you're saying about proselytizing people, though I don't think you need to worry about millstones and such. I've just recently begun to realize how completely subjective music is, and how thinking less of people because of their particular music taste is just immature.
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Post by crazedshredder on Feb 9, 2011 19:48:54 GMT -5
Ironically lots of "Christian" music has no purpose and sometimes has nothing to do with Christianity like MxPx
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Post by conner on Feb 9, 2011 21:30:44 GMT -5
Yeah, a lot of times I question Norma Jean's validity as a "Christian" band, but I don't know.
A lot of bands say they want to appeal to a wide audience so they can then witness to them or whatever. I don't know if they all stick to that though.
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Post by Paul on Feb 10, 2011 1:26:22 GMT -5
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Post by crazedshredder on Feb 10, 2011 2:07:54 GMT -5
Yeah, a lot of times I question Norma Jean's validity as a "Christian" band, but I don't know. A lot of bands say they want to appeal to a wide audience so they can then witness to them or whatever. I don't know if they all stick to that though. Yeah, I have seen interesting messages in some of Norma Jean's music, I am not a fan though.
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Post by Maarten on Feb 10, 2011 13:42:08 GMT -5
The melodies, counterpoints, atmosphere. Christian music will always win when it comes to counterpoint though Aside from BTA what other bands do you like? I must admit I listen to frightfully little metal nowadays, though it might be more of a period rather than that I actually stopped listening to metal. The new BTA album is the first metal album I've been looking forward to since quite a while. Also you could just read that whole book, it's great. Available in .pdf as well, so it costs nothing Indeed, I've almost finished the book now and I agree it is a great book. I also really liked Tozer's 'The Pursuit of God'. I bought a set of books by Tozer on a whim some time ago, but I'm really glad I did!
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Post by crazedshredder on Feb 10, 2011 16:49:51 GMT -5
I must admit I listen to frightfully little metal nowadays, though it might be more of a period rather than that I actually stopped listening to metal. The new BTA album is the first metal album I've been looking forward to since quite a while. Oh, I meant of all music, not just metal.
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Post by behemoth on Feb 10, 2011 19:14:18 GMT -5
That depends on the strain of atheism to which I adhered. Were I simply a passive atheist, meaning just a person who does not believe in God, then I would listen to them without problem. Were I, however, one of the angry "new atheists" berating religion as the primary evil in this world and making 'witty' quips about hair-dryers then yes I would have a problem listening to someone preach the gospel to me through music. Even if I was not Sam Harris, I might have a problem. The dynamic has changed drastically over the past 10 years or so, but I remember going to 'mixed' concerts where people booed the Christian band in the lineup because it was composed of Christians...can you picture fans of Mayhem or Burzum "being okay with listening to Christian metal" and would they even aknowledge it as true metal? There has long been an anti-Christian and anti-religion atmosphere in parts of the metal scene. Most real metalheads are open though. I have never met a metalhead who did not love Trouble. Plus look at me, I am obviously a Burzum fan but I am on a forum for a Christian band, and I am a Christian. When I discuss with you, I notice two things. 1st you are coming from an American context (I make this assumption based on your location in Washington State). American culture at large is very aesthetically oriented and shallow. I am not calling you shallow, nor am I using the term in a denigrating manner when speaking America. There are individual exceptions, but we as a collective tend to care about surface level details such as in this discussion "just caring about the sound of the music," the atmosphere, etc. Statements such as yours are quite common, both in music and in other aspects of life. This is not a value judgment and it is neither good nor bad in my estimation. I simply say this because from our context it is harder and rarer for people to embrace something for the meaning and message (such as the anti-Christian sentiments) over and above the form. The other thing I note about this discussion is that it takes place in the year 2011 AD (or CE if you want to be politically correct). We are approaching 3 decades since the origins of death metal, and we are still far removed from the early 1990's which seems to have been major point for black metal. An intrinsic part of the passage of time in relation to a movement, idea, philosophy, etc. is that subsequent generations tend to care less about the nuances and ideals that made the movement what it was when it began. All that to say that when I mentioned asking fans of Mayhem or Burzum, I was referring more to a specific time and locus. Scandinavian fans of these bands during the formative times when they were truly underground were often strongly anti-Christian, as evidenced by a rash of church burnings during the early 1990's by black metal people. Also the people involved in the inception of such a movement would refer to us (the later generation of fans who don't care about the content, but only the aesthetic [the music]) as posers, impostors, and not true fans. Face it, metal is not truly "underground" anymore. You can make a living (even if it isn't wildly extravagant) as a metal act. We are different from the crowd that listens to truly popular stuff (top 40 garbage), yet metal is more and more popular as time passes, and more and more socially acceptable. There are a lot of casual metalheads. There was a time when this simply wasn't the case. That is what I was trying to reference earlier.
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Post by crazedshredder on Feb 10, 2011 19:51:21 GMT -5
OK, I see what you mean. Most old school Burzum fans were anti-Christian, no doubt.
I however still listen to Burzum and enjoy it because of the music. I see the music as the real thing and the lyrics as the aesthetic, not the other way around.
Like I said before, we all have a right to our own opinions so lets move on, unless you have some questions you wish to discuss, that's fine.
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Post by Maarten on Feb 11, 2011 5:52:23 GMT -5
I must admit I listen to frightfully little metal nowadays, though it might be more of a period rather than that I actually stopped listening to metal. The new BTA album is the first metal album I've been looking forward to since quite a while. Oh, I meant of all music, not just metal. Oh right, well a few bands/artists I listen to are: David Eugene Edwards (that is; 16 Horsepower and Woven Hand), Psalters, Soil & Pimp Sessions, Johnny Cash, So Long Forgotten, Johan Sebastian Bach, Sergei Prokofiev, Charles Valentin Alkan, Nikolai Kapustin..... Eh as you see not all music I listen to is Christian, but none of it is satanic.
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Post by crazedshredder on Feb 11, 2011 12:21:40 GMT -5
Oh, I meant of all music, not just metal. Oh right, well a few bands/artists I listen to are: David Eugene Edwards (that is; 16 Horsepower and Woven Hand), Psalters, Soil & Pimp Sessions, Johnny Cash, So Long Forgotten, Johan Sebastian Bach, Sergei Prokofiev, Charles Valentin Alkan, Nikolai Kapustin..... Eh as you see not all music I listen to is Christian, but none of it is satanic. Cool, I listen to a lot of different music to. When it comes to metal, my favorite metal genre is epic doom so bands like Candlemass, Solitude Aeturnus, etc. metal from other genres like Burzum, Sacramentum and Beherit for black metal, Demilich, Incantation, and Morpheus Descends for death metal, Coroner, Watchtower, and Sodom for thrash, Blind Guardian for power metal, you get the point. I also listen to lots of non-metal, my favorite being Rush, but I listen to lots of classic rock and punk. Also classical for which my favorite composer is Brahms, jazz, world, folk, blues, you name it.
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Post by davo on Feb 13, 2011 12:40:31 GMT -5
at least with satanic/"evil" bands you know where they are.
most modern pop music, lyrically, has horrible content.
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