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Post by Maarten on Oct 9, 2009 16:07:49 GMT -5
My point is, if you're gonna go to church, go to one that isn't half-assed, or don't go at all And at this point, generally all protestant churches are half-assed and pathetic, especially the more "relevant" and "open" they try to be What you're describing is the half-assedness and lukewarmness every denomination in the west is facing. Liturgical churches just hide it behind their liturgy, but in my experience they're just as crappy. And what all those churches, both the free and the open, and the strict and liturgical, do wrong, in my opinion, is that they do not open themselves up to the Holy Spirit. 'Open' churches start talking crap trying to be relevant and entertaining, and Liturgical churches hide behind their liturgy. All, protestant churches I've been to have been half-assed as well, but when I say protestant, I mean reformed and liturgical as s**t, because I'm Dutch; people here don't call evangelical churches and stuff like that protestant over here. My observation though, is that most of these evangelical and free churches, are exactly the same as the liturgical churches, only they have a band instead of a church organ, and the preacher/reverant/priest guy doesn't wear a dress. Actually, I like the old hymns more than most modern worship songs; I can understand your experience; but I disagree with you, a church that is truely free and open to the Spirit, is a thousand times more epic and dynamic than any man-made liturgy will ever be. Unfortunably, churches that truly open themselves up to the Holy Spirit are rather rare.
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Post by dismalmorgue on Oct 15, 2009 19:52:39 GMT -5
yea protestant pop culture is basically taking something holy and twisting it into something hip and marketable dont think xians are the ones profiting off xian pop culture the most >:I
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Post by Scott on Oct 15, 2009 20:01:08 GMT -5
My observation though, is that most of these evangelical and free churches, are exactly the same as the liturgical churches, only they have a band instead of a church organ, and the preacher/reverant/priest guy doesn't wear a dress. You haven't been to a American Protestant church, I take it.
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Post by Maarten on Oct 16, 2009 8:17:42 GMT -5
True, I've never been to an American Protestant church.
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Post by augustwinterman on Nov 24, 2009 3:26:32 GMT -5
Wow. It's amazing how much of that I have seen in churches. I know I've definitely become dissatisfied with the Protestant church as of late.
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rhez
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by rhez on Dec 31, 2009 22:15:47 GMT -5
HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Anyways, I've been to quite a few churches myself, both Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Methodist, and Protestant.
Out of all those I've probably felt closest to God in the Methodist and Protestant ones, i guess Danes are just better at being protestant than Americans are. Catholic and Anglican just seemed too scripted, and Orthodox made me feel unwanted.
Although I'm a Christian Universalist myself.
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Post by Maarten on Jan 1, 2010 8:04:20 GMT -5
Evangelical is not the same as Protestant.
Where I come from often people talk about Catholics, Protestants and Evangelicals/Pentcostals/Charismatics as if they are three seperate things. When people talk like that, they use Protestant as a synonym for Reformed/Calvinistic. (and some other here barely existing denominations like seventh day adventist, anglican, lutheran etc.)
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Post by ecclesiastes on Jan 1, 2010 22:50:13 GMT -5
Since I represent this denomination, I guess I'll contribute. For the most part, we have a lot of people who are really engaged with stuff and a lot of genuine movement happening in our church without trying to be "relevant" and stuff. Most of our church services are "conservative" but not liturgical, and we don't do a lot of the cheesy stuff other protestant denominations are doing, and I think for the most part it's helping. I find that when people try to make things flashy and extravagant to "bring people in", it takes the focus off of actual teaching and Jesus and stuff. Surprise surprise, our biggest area of disfunction is in North America! Everywhere else in the world seems to be doing really well. I haven't read all of this thread yet but it seems that there's a whole "north america" thing going on. I also saw a special on the news recently about the difference between Evangelical/Prostestantism in the States and in Canada. It seemed to highlight that the scene was going way more over the top ridiculous in America then up here.
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Post by Maarten on Jan 2, 2010 6:38:42 GMT -5
Well, the biggest area of disfunction of Christianity in general is America as far as I can tell, after that Europe, after that the rest of the countries where it's a major religion and a tradition, but which arn't as rich as us western countries. (South America and a few African countries and such.)
Outside of the countries where it's the major religion and the traditional religion, it seems to be functioning perfectly.
Also, I have a friend who studies theology at a seventh day adventist university somewhere in England; and one of the only 55 (I just looked it up) seventh day adventist churches in the Netherlands is in my city. I generally get the impression that they seem to do all right, especially compared to many other denominations. Sometimes however it seems as though they don't always understand why they hold some of the more radical views and teachings they have. (Like why they're all supposed to be vegetarians, and why they don't drink coffee* etc.) They often have some sort of standard awnser to questions, but they don't always really seem to understand themselves.
*I'm not sure if not drinking coffee is a general thing, but in the church they have in my city, you're expected not to drink coffee, or at least not coffee with caffeine, because you can get addicted to caffeine.
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Post by ecclesiastes on Jan 2, 2010 23:25:18 GMT -5
Yeah the vegetarian thing is a pretty common thing and sometimes people don't really dig into it too deep but there are some pretty solid reasonings behind it.
The coffee thing is more or less just an addiction + health concern, it goes along with our whole "take care of your body" thing we've got going. It's not as widespread because there are concerns that are generally seen as being "bigger", but there are a lot of adventists that don't drink coffee or anything with caffeine.
But I'm pleased to know you've seen good stuff with us, normally all I ever hear is "legalists!" and "cult!", so it's good to hear some positive feedback.
This whole "corruption of Protestantism" thing also kind of fits into our understanding of eschatological prophesy and stuff. I don't know if that rings true with anyone else here.
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