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Post by Jacob Lance (EpitomeParadox) on Aug 25, 2007 12:22:11 GMT -5
it's something i've been debating for some time now, and i see both views points take these two economic view points for example: For- They make up a vast percentage of the (minimum-wage) working class Against- They don't pay taxes It's mostly the issue of them not paying taxes, but overflowing all of the local low cost/free health clinics here. I come from a poor family with poorer friends and often to get any medical help without having to spend $100+ on a doctor in my town, you have to wait for three hours and then hope that you get lucky enough to find someone that speaks english to help you.
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Post by Azrael on Aug 25, 2007 12:27:20 GMT -5
Yes, it would be. Now how is that relevant to the protests? You said that this is a security issue and could produce another 9/11. Of the 48 terrorists studied in case studies by the Center for Immigration Studies, 17 were Lawful Permanent Residents (citizens), 16 were on temporary visas, 12 were illegal, and 3 were seeking asylum. Now, in your first post you opposed granting citizen rights to the illegal immigrants. What do you believe should be done with them? Well, this is a sticky situation. As a humanitarian, I think we should put some effort into cleaning up their countries so they don't come here. That would mean solving the Corruption in Central and South America by any means necessary. I have very little pity for those who take bread out of infant's mouths to sell for their own profit. Once Illegal Immigrant's home countries are nice enough places to live, that should halt the majority of traffic.
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Post by jupiter on Aug 26, 2007 1:41:21 GMT -5
If you didn't hire them they wouldn't come, end of story.
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Post by Scott on Aug 26, 2007 1:43:07 GMT -5
If you didn't hire them they wouldn't come, end of story. Exactly, if we decide we don't want them coming in, crack down on the people hiring them, not the immigrants themselves.
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Post by Lazarus Dark on Aug 27, 2007 13:17:46 GMT -5
A dear friend of mine in Litte Rock got married a year and a half ago. To an Australian woman whom he had been having an internet relationship with for five years. They had met five or six times in person over those years and finally got married, to all his friends delight. The got married in Australia and spent two weeks together. He came back. She had already applied for permanent residence in America a year before. Now they were married and they filed papers to bring her over here. It's been a year and a half and she is still not here. And they've been married all this time! It is not easy to come to America, the paperwork can take years. I'm not saying let em all come. But certainly the process needs to be much improved. As long as they have employable skills (she is a well regarded web designer), I say bring em over.
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Post by amoyensis on Sept 12, 2007 17:56:23 GMT -5
I think what Azrael is saying really nails it. Why do they want to come to the USA? What are they running from? Instead of addressing the most superficial aspect of the issue, let's address the cause of the issue.
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Post by Atheo on Sept 13, 2007 21:23:19 GMT -5
John Locke said that government is a contract between citizens and leaders, where the citizen's obligations are
a)help and support the leaders b)overthrow the government if the government does not protect the rights of the citizen, or infringes upon them
The obligations of the leaders are to protect the rights of the people.
In my opinion, as long as people fulfill their duties as citizens they should have the rights of citizenship. Citizenship is not something granted to all who seek it. It is granted to those who are willing to fulfill the duties of citizenship.
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Post by amoyensis on Sept 13, 2007 21:57:20 GMT -5
In that case citizenship should not be given at birth, is that correct?
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Post by metallikidxofxtbr on Sept 15, 2007 16:13:57 GMT -5
I think we should close our borders permanently
and kick out all the people who are here illegaly
and build that wall everyone is talking about
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Post by amoyensis on Sept 16, 2007 13:34:51 GMT -5
That's very loving.
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Post by Atheo on Sept 18, 2007 18:58:19 GMT -5
While I have not put a lot of thought into this system, perhaps children should be given the rights of citizenship until a certain age, when they can begin fulfilling responsibilities as well? The problem of course with any system like this is how hard it would be to enforce. How can one prove that one is not fulfilling the duties of citizenship?
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