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Post by dlectronic on Dec 12, 2009 22:11:18 GMT -5
Pretend these were my words and thoughts.
What would you say?
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Post by Brent on Dec 12, 2009 22:21:32 GMT -5
I would say the third line is something only a jackass would say
Nobody should be grounded in any belief involving any deity
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 12, 2009 22:49:33 GMT -5
I guess I would ask if reason actually exists. How can a creation with no reason create reason / have things that posses reason within it? And if reason doesn't exist, why should I have any reason to believe your statement? It seems to lead to pointlessness.
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Post by Brent on Dec 12, 2009 23:04:26 GMT -5
How can a creation with no reason create ? How can something be created from nothing? Welcome to philosophy. Just question after question after question and no answers
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Post by dlectronic on Dec 12, 2009 23:05:34 GMT -5
It seems to lead to pointlessness. I agree. Obviously those aren't my words, but a friend of mine really did say them. He is against the notion of the existence of a god or God. But who said them is irrelevant really. To me, those are just words of utter absurdity. I can't prove why logic is what it is. But I trust it nonetheless. I can't PROVE that anything exists outside of my own mind, but I trust that there is existence outside of my mind. etc. *EDIT* If its not clear, the origional quote aims to say something along the lines of "the lack of existence sprang "itself" into existence on "its" own."
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Post by Brent on Dec 12, 2009 23:10:00 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]
[/glow]
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Post by Shiv on Dec 12, 2009 23:20:20 GMT -5
Aw yes, another one of these threads
I'm so stoked on reading all 4 pages before it gets locked
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 12, 2009 23:31:50 GMT -5
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Post by Josh on Dec 13, 2009 1:17:56 GMT -5
Aw yes, another one of these threads I'm so stoked on reading all 4 pages before it gets locked Im just stoked when Landon will come in telling us to...yeah...I'll let him say it.
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Post by lastfirstborn on Dec 13, 2009 1:28:01 GMT -5
Not again.
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Post by dlectronic on Dec 13, 2009 16:38:26 GMT -5
I read through those 5 points and very much so skeptical of there validity. But they don't seem to be regarding the topic I was trying to get discussion on. Assuming that a) the universe is extant, and b) the universe had a point of beginning, what If I asserted that the lack of anything (or "nothing, if we are to treat it as an object...no matter how wierd that may seem) was its own cause to come in existence?I could probably word it better, but see the original quote I made for better wording. *EDIT* lol I can't type.
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Post by Jeremy on Dec 13, 2009 17:07:41 GMT -5
Yeah, I know. I thought it was interesting how the "non-existing existence" etc was used in two different ways.
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Post by lastfirstborn on Dec 13, 2009 17:13:58 GMT -5
The universe created itself for no apparent reason whatsoever, defying all logic. Add a creator to the mix and you get "the creator of the universe created itself for no apparent reason whatsoever, defying all logic".
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Post by Zhou Tai 04 on Dec 13, 2009 19:13:03 GMT -5
The universe created itself for no apparent reason whatsoever, defying all logic. Add a creator to the mix and you get "the creator of the universe created itself for no apparent reason whatsoever, defying all logic". But then you would have to assume that human logic extends past our observable 4 dimensions.
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Post by lastfirstborn on Dec 13, 2009 19:24:10 GMT -5
Add a creator to the mix and you get "the creator of the universe created itself for no apparent reason whatsoever, defying all logic". But then you would have to assume that human logic extends past our observable 4 dimensions. My point is that a creator that wasn't created isn't more logical than a world that wasn't created.
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