|
Post by iamcatholic on Feb 2, 2006 0:41:15 GMT -5
if you look at the rituals of the catholic church you will see a lot of straying from God. for instance why so they pray to saints when the bible clearly states there is only one mediator between man and god and it is Christ JEsus? also there is is sacrifice of bread and wine but wasn't Christ Jesus the final sacrifice? logically it can be argued like this, i have asked many catholics about why they pray to saints and they always say "because Jesus is so busy." But logically if Jesus is fully god and fully man wouldn't he be all powerfull? so how can an all powerful God be short on time? and why wouldn't he want to hear from you personally if he loves you and you are a child of God? (saved in other words.) Dude, not to come out hateful, but i thought this thread was called 'The Freemasons' not 'Unfounded Catholic Bashing'. Also, the fact that the 'Catholics' you talk to don't know the teachings of the faith they supposedly belong to does not give you the right to make statements without doing any research. Make a different thread if you want to discuss. sigh... About freemasons... Personally I strongly suspect that freemasonry is a front for seriously evil activities. I've even heard they were connected to satanic activities, and that in my town they actually paraded past the cathedral with a banner showing satan defeating on St. Michael. This is all hearsay. I could be way off base, but all the evidence I've seen suggests this may be true. I'd stay away from freemasonry if at all possible.
|
|
|
Post by jeepnut on Feb 2, 2006 0:49:27 GMT -5
if you look at the rituals of the catholic church you will see a lot of straying from God. for instance why so they pray to saints when the bible clearly states there is only one mediator between man and god and it is Christ JEsus? also there is is sacrifice of bread and wine but wasn't Christ Jesus the final sacrifice? logically it can be argued like this, i have asked many catholics about why they pray to saints and they always say "because Jesus is so busy." But logically if Jesus is fully god and fully man wouldn't he be all powerfull? so how can an all powerful God be short on time? and why wouldn't he want to hear from you personally if he loves you and you are a child of God? (saved in other words.) Catholics, and I can say this because I am one, do NOT pray TO the Saints. We ask the Saints to pray FOR us. This is the same as asking a friend on earth to pray for you as I have seen many of you do here on this forum. This does not put limits on God's power. We don't do it because we think God is too busy. Quite the opposite. If we thought he was too busy, the last thing we would want is even more people taking his time. Unfortunately, many Catholics don't know why the Church teaches what it does and therefore, you get answers like "because Jesus is so busy." As far as the Eucharist, this link does a good job of explaining it: www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/link/e-litur.htmlEDIT: Welcome to the forum iamcatholic. As you can see from the above post, I'm Catholic as well. Don't get too upset though. There are many misunderstandings about the Catholic faith. Just got to do your best to make the truth known.
|
|
|
Post by bloodwarrior on Feb 2, 2006 15:10:28 GMT -5
please, if i am wrong, correct me. i do not wish to alienate anyone, although if i have done that i sincerly apologize.
jeepnut, i read your post and the link and i am a little in the dark. please explain to me wht the council of trent is and why we need it. i am not and never have been catholic and am unfamilliar with a few terms, such as the teaching of the apostales, and the eucharist. i don't know where i can find them in my nkj bible. please show me.
|
|
|
Post by jeepnut on Feb 2, 2006 22:26:15 GMT -5
please, if i am wrong, correct me. i do not wish to alienate anyone, although if i have done that i sincerly apologize. jeepnut, i read your post and the link and i am a little in the dark. please explain to me wht the council of trent is and why we need it. i am not and never have been catholic and am unfamilliar with a few terms, such as the teaching of the apostales, and the eucharist. i don't know where i can find them in my nkj bible. please show me. Council of Trent - Linkage!As far as Bible quotes go, being the good Catholic that I am, I'm not terribly familiar with my Bible. We're kinda notorious for that. It's something I need to get better at. Also, we use a different version, The New American Bible, so some versus are a little different. Also, we have two books that the NKJ version does not. I could look up some quotes, but it's going to take me a little while.
|
|
|
Post by iamcatholic on Feb 3, 2006 0:30:44 GMT -5
please, if i am wrong, correct me. i do not wish to alienate anyone, although if i have done that i sincerly apologize. jeepnut, i read your post and the link and i am a little in the dark. please explain to me wht the council of trent is and why we need it. i am not and never have been catholic and am unfamilliar with a few terms, such as the teaching of the apostales, and the eucharist. i don't know where i can find them in my nkj bible. please show me. Of course, all is forgiven. here are some bible verses that support the catholic teachings on the eucharist: Mt 26.17-29 Mk 14.12-25 Lk 22.7-20; 24.13-35 Jn 6.25-59 1 Cor 11.17-34 Since the council of Trent is a historical event that took place somewhere in the 3rd-4th century(I forget the year), you wont find it in the bible. You'd have to read a historical source for information. EDIT: ok i got the date totally wrong, it took place from 1545-1563. Jeepnut's link is very good.
|
|
|
Post by jeepnut on Feb 4, 2006 1:39:15 GMT -5
I don't know much, but I link well.
|
|
|
Post by bloodwarrior on Feb 6, 2006 20:34:11 GMT -5
what is the eucharist?
|
|
|
Post by iamcatholic on Feb 6, 2006 22:16:23 GMT -5
heres an introduction to it. the articles linked at the bottom are also necessary for anything like a full understanding though. Very hard to explain unless you've been raised with it. Plus im never good with explainations, so i'll let you read yourself. www.newadvent.org/cathen/05572c.htm
|
|
|
Post by iamcatholic on Feb 6, 2006 22:36:30 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by MWC DemonHunter on Feb 8, 2006 9:56:17 GMT -5
I'm not doing any unfounded Catholic bashing but I'm not letting this slide either. I know more than several Catholics and EVERY one of them has told me that they ask the saints for help because God has so many people to take care of and can't get to everyone. Also, I'm sorry but saying something like "Saint Michael protect us" isn't saying "Pardon me Saint Michael, could you go ask God to protect us?" Furthermore, if God is so easily accessible then why do you have to go through the saints? The Bible very explicitly mentions that Jesus said that there is no way unto the Father but through Me. That being said, my Dad has the same Bible used by Catholics at home, it's the on he used as his wedding Bible. The part about not worshipping false idols is suspectly missing. You think Catholics don't worship any of the saints or anything? Let a statue of Mary "cry" and they'll pack in as if it were Jesus Himself. I'm sorry but Mary was nothing but a vessel chosen by God. She's NOT part of the holy trinity *father, son and Holy Ghost*
Now, to make people really mad. There's a part in Revelation...I'll go find the quote:
5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
The way that I interpret it is this....the Catholic Church is headquartered in the Vatican. The Vatican is perched in what city? Rome. Rome is know as "The City that Sits on Seven Hills" I just find it awful suspicious. I just know that, I don't have to pray or ask forgiveness from anyone but Jesus, I don't have to ask anyone to go and talk to Him for me either, I can do it all on my own.
|
|
|
Post by jeepnut on Feb 9, 2006 2:39:41 GMT -5
I'm not doing any unfounded Catholic bashing but I'm not letting this slide either. I know more than several Catholics and EVERY one of them has told me that they ask the saints for help because God has so many people to take care of and can't get to everyone. Also, I'm sorry but saying something like "Saint Michael protect us" isn't saying "Pardon me Saint Michael, could you go ask God to protect us?" Furthermore, if God is so easily accessible then why do you have to go through the saints? The Bible very explicitly mentions that Jesus said that there is no way unto the Father but through Me. That being said, my Dad has the same Bible used by Catholics at home, it's the on he used as his wedding Bible. The part about not worshipping false idols is suspectly missing. You think Catholics don't worship any of the saints or anything? Let a statue of Mary "cry" and they'll pack in as if it were Jesus Himself. I'm sorry but Mary was nothing but a vessel chosen by God. She's NOT part of the holy trinity *father, son and Holy Ghost* Now, to make people really mad. There's a part in Revelation...I'll go find the quote: 5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. The way that I interpret it is this....the Catholic Church is headquartered in the Vatican. The Vatican is perched in what city? Rome. Rome is know as "The City that Sits on Seven Hills" I just find it awful suspicious. I just know that, I don't have to pray or ask forgiveness from anyone but Jesus, I don't have to ask anyone to go and talk to Him for me either, I can do it all on my own. Ugh. The disease spreads. This is going to be like the emo thing. "Dashboard Confessional is emo!" "They're nowhere near emo. True emo has its roots in hardcore!" "They are whiny and emo!" "No they're not!" And so on... Seriously dude. I don't care how many Catholics you know and have asked. What I've posted above is the true teaching of the Church. If you don't believe someone who's been a Catholic since birth, is currently practicing, and has gone through the trouble of researching the teaching, then who are you going to believe? Do not try and tell me what my faith teaches me. I think I know better than you. I don't want to turn this into an argument. I would rather people ask questions about my faith and discuss it, but if I answer a question and then you come in and tell me I'm wrong when your only source is hearsay, then you are doing "unfounded Catholic bashing." Not letting this slide? What the crap does that mean? [/rant] *enters cool-down mode* P.S. I'm not as angry as I sound in the above post. I'm actually quite calm right now. More amazed than anything. *Goes off to ask the saints to pray FOR xnightwraithx.
|
|
And so it ends...
Junior Member
Through the eye of a needle I watched you die...
Posts: 96
|
Post by And so it ends... on Feb 9, 2006 13:53:12 GMT -5
I've never delved into any Mason reasearch, but from what I've heard, they're a peaceful group of old men just trying to keep the world straight...? Am I right or far wrong?
|
|
|
Post by jeepnut on Feb 9, 2006 17:25:34 GMT -5
The world may never know...
|
|
|
Post by iamcatholic on Feb 9, 2006 19:08:28 GMT -5
I'm not doing any unfounded Catholic bashing but I'm not letting this slide either. I know more than several Catholics and EVERY one of them has told me that they ask the saints for help because God has so many people to take care of and can't get to everyone. Also, I'm sorry but saying something like "Saint Michael protect us" isn't saying "Pardon me Saint Michael, could you go ask God to protect us?" Furthermore, if God is so easily accessible then why do you have to go through the saints? The Bible very explicitly mentions that Jesus said that there is no way unto the Father but through Me. That being said, my Dad has the same Bible used by Catholics at home, it's the on he used as his wedding Bible. The part about not worshipping false idols is suspectly missing. You think Catholics don't worship any of the saints or anything? Let a statue of Mary "cry" and they'll pack in as if it were Jesus Himself. I'm sorry but Mary was nothing but a vessel chosen by God. She's NOT part of the holy trinity *father, son and Holy Ghost* Now, to make people really mad. There's a part in Revelation...I'll go find the quote: 5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. The way that I interpret it is this....the Catholic Church is headquartered in the Vatican. The Vatican is perched in what city? Rome. Rome is know as "The City that Sits on Seven Hills" I just find it awful suspicious. I just know that, I don't have to pray or ask forgiveness from anyone but Jesus, I don't have to ask anyone to go and talk to Him for me either, I can do it all on my own. Well, heres what the other catholic has to say about that lot. Firstly about St. Michael... he's an angel. So he CAN directly help us, just as much as Satan can tempt us. Since we know from revelation that St. Michael defeated Satan and cast him down after the fall, it is only natural for Christians to call on him in temptation, spiritual warfare, possession, etc. And if you were to say, for example, "St. Therese, help me!"... okay... think about this. How would she help you? BY INTERCEDING FOR YOU. Just because you word it differently doesnt mean that you think saints fly around like fairy godmothers making your troubles go away. Hmm... nothing about idolatry in a Catholic Bible? How about these... Exodus 32, Wisdom 14, Baruch 6,1 Cor 10... "Therefore, my dear friends, flee from the worship of idols." 1 Cor 10.14 - That seems pretty clear to me... About Mary... oh my. If a statue weeps blood, should we treat that as an everyday event? Heck no, its a miracle and people are right to be excited about it. Thanks for reminding me that Mary isnt in the trinity... but no one in their right mind would think that... its like saying Mary is not a kangaroo, as if we didnt know, its just insulting dude. "You think Catholics dont worship saints" you say... well no, I KNOW they don't because I AM ONE. In revelation the city with seven hills is most definitely Rome, the great oppressor of christians in its time. However, as St. John goes on to reveal, the Lamb will conquer, and indeed has conquered. You definitely didn't make me mad, just sad. People get mad when they're presented with arguments that change their way of thinking. Your arguments are ones I've not only heard dozens of times before, but have thought and prayed about, and I know they're false. It just makes me sad to see how many people want to believe them so badly.
|
|
|
Post by Samhain on Feb 9, 2006 23:09:33 GMT -5
The world may never know... He is right. My grandfather was apart of the Masons at some point in his life. I know he is not a luciferian. Most of the rumors about the Masons are just speculations made by paranoid people. It's even possible they made it all up themselves. No one really knows because like any private club their internal affairs involve no one but themselves. Yes I have seen pentagrams used in some of their symbols, but a pentagram doesn't specifically represant the Devil. They are no differant from the Lyons club, or the Kiwanis. It's just a bunch of old people who donate money to charities. As for the Catholic thing. It doesn't matter that much. All the little things don't really matter in the long run. Catholics believe that Salvation is only obtained through Jesus Christ's sacrifice, just as well as the Baptists, the Methodists, the Presbyterians and so on. So stop fighting with each other over all the little differances, it does nothing but distract us, and divide us so that we lose all of our unity and attention on the more important matters. As Christians we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, and that's all that should matter. We should work together to help save the many lost people in the world.
|
|