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Post by Ferd Berfel on Apr 2, 2007 17:25:34 GMT -5
I believe abortion is wrong unless it is in defense of the mother's life- and the baby's life. If, say, the fetus is trapped in the fallopian tubes and will mature and develop there, it will die. It will take the mother with it. Ferd Berfel, you and your acestor are very lucky. Because of the repitition in your family, it's possible you possess a gene that makes pregnancy and birth easier, so even if there are complications you stand a better chance. However, your cases are very rare. If the fetus is trapped in the fallopian tubes and will kill the mother as well as itself, it makes no sense to not get an abortion. Abortions are not pleasant for the baby, to be sure, but it will die in a fashion no less unpleasant if it is not aborted- and then it will kill the mother as well. As for abortions because of rape, this is incredibly stupid. there are many families looking for a child to adopt; no need to kill the child. any other abortions are evil because if the mother is not willing to take the consequences of her sexual actions, she should not have had sex. You do have a point about the fallopian tubes, it's something I hadn't considered before. After some consideration, however, I would say that if a child is found to be trapped there, and there is absolutely no hope, then an abortion is the only solution. In the case of rape, some people say that the child serves as a daily reminder of the trauma that the mother endured, and so an abortion is just a way of coping with that trauma. I disagree with that point, for obvious reasons . Adoption is a very good option. It's not the child's fault for his conception, why punish him with death? It's unjust.
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Post by Atheo on Apr 2, 2007 17:34:25 GMT -5
Yeah, if the mother can't deal with it then there are many families who can take the kid in and never tell him about his conception. In any case, that's what counseling is for- to help the mother understand that it's not her fault or the child's fault. No rational woman would blame her rape on the product, or punish the child for it.
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Post by Azrael on May 31, 2007 15:59:52 GMT -5
Wow, this is an extremely late response...but I have to say this I still think that the excuse "defense of the mother's life" is complete and total bull. We have technology today that can prevent serious complications and death in mothers, IF the pregnant woman has enough sense to seek out prenatal care. Abortion in any form, behind any excuse...is murder. There was no practice of abortion in Bible times. Therefore, the Bible never specifically addresses the issue. However, there are numerous teachings in Scripture that make it abundantly clear what God's view of abortion is. Jeremiah 1:5 tells us that God knows us before He knits us in the womb. Psalm 139:13-16 speaks of God's active role in our creation and formation in the womb. Exodus 21:22-25 prescribes the same penalty of someone who causes the death of a baby in the womb as the penalty for someone who commits murder. This clearly indicates that God considers a baby in the womb as just as much of a human being as a full-grown adult. For the Christian, abortion is not a matter of a woman's right to choose. It is a matter of the life or death of a human being made in God's image (Genesis 1:26-27; 9:6). The first argument that always arises against the Christian stance on abortion is, "What about cases of rape and/or incest?" As horrible as it would be to become pregnant as a result of rape and/or incest, does that make the murder of a baby the answer? Two wrongs do not make a right. The child who is a result of rape/incest could be given up for adoption to a loving family unable to have children on their own or the child could be raised by its mother. Again, the baby should not be punished for the evil acts of its father. The second argument that usually arises against the Christian stance on abortion is, "What about when the life of the mother is at risk?" Honestly, this is the most difficult question to answer on the issue of abortion. First, let's remember that this situation is the reason behind less than one-tenth of one percent of the abortions done in the world today. Second, let's remember that God is a God of miracles. He can preserve the life of a mother and a child despite all the medical odds being against it. Ultimately, though, this question can only be decided between a husband, wife, and God. Any couple facing this extremely difficult situation should pray to the Lord for wisdom (James 1:5) as to what He would have them to do. For those who have had an abortion, the sin of abortion is no less forgivable than any other sin. Through faith in Christ, any and all sins can be forgiven (John 3:16; Rom 8:1; Col 1:14). Recommended Resource: The Hand of God: A Journey from Death to Life by the Abortion Doctor Who Changed His Mind by Bernard Nathanson. As a woman, if I knew my life was in danger, I'd definitely pray. The irony here is this: I'm underweight for my age and height, nothing I do makes me gain weight. My doctor has told me that if I didn't gain weight and my hips stayed the size they are now, I'd have complications concerning pregnancy and labor. But I would NOT, under any circumstances destroy the life that God obviously has a purpose for. I'd pray that if my life was to end, at least the baby find some couple who loved it like I would. I wouldn't let my own mortality scare me to the point of murder. Yes! We need more women like you. The yappy feminist don't-tell-me-what-to-do-or-I'll-kill-you types always tell me that I have no opinion on the matter because I'm not a woman and "don't know their pain." It doesn't matter if I run a marathon (which by survey is more painful than childbirth, and I do intend to run one soon), I am still unequal in their eyes. I saw a cool bumper sticker that proclaimed "I am for the rights of unborn females." That kind of leaves us dudes out in the cold, but it's still cool that somebody thought of that. At any rate, you have my respect.
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Post by amoyensis on May 31, 2007 20:03:51 GMT -5
Okay, cool post I guess but one thing: 'more painful than childbirth'... by survey!?
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Post by toothandnail04 on May 31, 2007 20:42:58 GMT -5
What I find interesting is that abortion isn't legally murder, and yet a man who kills a pregnant woman gets two counts of manslaughter.
...wwwhhhaaaaaaa?
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Post by abram92 on May 31, 2007 22:26:06 GMT -5
What I find interesting is that abortion isn't legally murder, and yet a man who kills a pregnant woman gets two counts of manslaughter. ...wwwhhhaaaaaaa? Excellent point. I hate how people are like "what if the was raped?" everytime the abortion issue comes up. abortion after rape makes up less than (i think, don't quote me) 2% of all abortions. All the other abortions are just girls like " omg, i don't want this baby, but Ima have lotsa unprotected sex with everybody!!!!" It drives me nuts.
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Post by Azrael on Jun 1, 2007 16:48:57 GMT -5
Okay, cool post I guess but one thing: 'more painful than childbirth'... by survey!? Every woman I've ever asked that has given birth and ran a marathon said that it's more painful. ;D Don't worry, this survey wasn't conducted by some nutty conservative legion, it's me!
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Post by magnumforce2006 on Jun 5, 2007 13:55:11 GMT -5
What I find interesting is that abortion isn't legally murder, and yet a man who kills a pregnant woman gets two counts of manslaughter. ...wwwhhhaaaaaaa? I actually had to write and speak about a case like this in Law... State v. Merril.
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Post by Ferd Berfel on Jun 6, 2007 2:14:05 GMT -5
Okay, cool post I guess but one thing: 'more painful than childbirth'... by survey!? Testicular torsion has a higher pain index that childbirth... So the next time you twist your nuts up, just remember: You now know the pain of childbirth, + extra.
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Post by toothandnail04 on Jun 6, 2007 17:37:00 GMT -5
What I find interesting is that abortion isn't legally murder, and yet a man who kills a pregnant woman gets two counts of manslaughter. ...wwwhhhaaaaaaa? I actually had to write and speak about a case like this in Law... State v. Merril. Don't you feel special.
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Post by magnumforce2006 on Jun 6, 2007 21:12:05 GMT -5
I actually had to write and speak about a case like this in Law... State v. Merril. Don't you feel special. My Mom says I am, so yes.
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Post by toothandnail04 on Jun 7, 2007 15:34:06 GMT -5
My Mom says I am, so yes. Aw, I <3 your mom.
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Post by thedot on Jun 19, 2007 12:55:22 GMT -5
Hey dudes, I actually live in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. The topic was obviously huge a while ago, but it sucks that it didn't pass when they voted for it. Now the pro-life group is going to start advertising a long time before voting.
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Post by Atheo on Jun 27, 2007 21:41:07 GMT -5
Nobody has the right to do what is morally wrong. Then what is morally right? Your definition? My definition? The Bible's? If the bible is used to decide someone's rights, we will have joined state and church.
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Post by Azrael on Jul 1, 2007 21:54:47 GMT -5
Nobody has the right to do what is morally wrong. Then what is morally right? Your definition? My definition? The Bible's? If the bible is used to decide someone's rights, we will have joined state and church. Joining state and church is closer than you think, but to most people's surprise, state wins. Did you know that marriages are the state's decision first and foremost? Technically, the state could order a priest to either wed, or not wed a couple. Rather surprising. It could be that if a bill supporting homosexual marriage is passed, your local church could be holding the ceremony by order of a court.
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