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Post by Heretic on Aug 5, 2007 13:22:32 GMT -5
Aye, so, I heard in the paper that the British Army is going to cease occupation of Northern Ireland. They will still maintain bases there, because technically North Ireland is still part of Britain, but the army will cease to help the police and do raids on houses.
Maybe Eriu will soon be free!
-Slainte Mhath
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Post by Azrael on Aug 5, 2007 17:11:42 GMT -5
Sweet. If I was there, I'd be cheering my lungs out. My Indian friend and I have a lot in common: we both despise radical Islam and hate British imperialism. Not many people realize how bad it is when the British invade your country.
First they break your army and kill all of your heroes that are still alive as a sign of their power Next, they start policing you in your own country, treating you as second rate citizens After that, they completely erase your culture and unique language from your country.
No wonder tons of other countries hate them.
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Post by davo on Aug 5, 2007 17:26:05 GMT -5
Sweet. If I was there, I'd be cheering my lungs out. My Indian friend and I have a lot in common: we both despise radical Islam and hate British imperialism. Not many people realize how bad it is when the British invade your country. First they break your army and kill all of your heroes that are still alive as a sign of their power Next, they start policing you in your own country, treating you as second rate citizens After that, they completely erase your culture and unique language from your country. No wonder tons of other countries hate them. gee, thanks. next time i speak to my friend there i'll probably ask him his thoughts on the whole matter.
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Post by jupiter on Aug 5, 2007 18:05:41 GMT -5
Sweet. If I was there, I'd be cheering my lungs out. My Indian friend and I have a lot in common: we both despise radical Islam and hate British imperialism. Not many people realize how bad it is when the British invade your country. First they break your army and kill all of your heroes that are still alive as a sign of their power Next, they start policing you in your own country, treating you as second rate citizens After that, they completely erase your culture and unique language from your country. No wonder tons of other countries hate them. What you are describing is par for the course with any empire. American imperialism is no different, neither was the USSR, France, Germany, hell even Rome. Believing that any one empire is better or worse than those preceding it is a common mistake.
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Post by Derwydd. on Aug 5, 2007 19:40:49 GMT -5
Maybe Eriu will soon be free! Let us hope so!
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Post by Heretic on Aug 5, 2007 20:11:54 GMT -5
And after Eriu, then Alba, and Wales...
(Laughing) I shouldn't get ahead of myself here. But seriously, the way that the North Irish have been treated is horrible. I think that we, as Christians, have the honour and duty to fight against imperialism, be it Roman, British, and in this day, American. I pray that the American Empire is toppled in due time, and that no empire is set up in its place. No people, no tribe, and no nation should be made subject to another.
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Post by Derwydd. on Aug 5, 2007 20:26:08 GMT -5
And after Eriu, then Alba, and Wales... (Laughing) I shouldn't get ahead of myself here. But seriously, the way that the North Irish have been treated is horrible. I think that we, as Christians, have the honour and duty to fight against imperialism, be it Roman, British, and in this day, American. I pray that the American Empire is toppled in due time, and that no empire is set up in its place. No people, no tribe, and no nation should be made subject to another. Amen Brother! I couldn't agree with you more.
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Post by Atheo on Aug 6, 2007 22:18:21 GMT -5
Oh, I see. The British just so happen to be worse than any other of the thousands of nations and empires and kingdoms in the world's history that have done that? And I don't think that 'tons of other countries hate them'. Speak for yourself. Scotland, most of it. Ireland, most of it (I think- I'm not very familiar with Irish culture). But the rest of the world?
In any case, I find that while the Celtic resentment over the English treatment of them historically- although I don't believe that to be the case right now- is somewhat justified it is no worse than what the Celts would have done had they won the wars. The Celts were like almost every other people when they were first subjugated- raping, burning, and pillaging as they traveled. Not much to be holier-than-thou about.
I am not defending the English occupation of other countries. I am merely putting it in perspective. Let bygones be bygones, and also remember that a country's historical actions do not define its people. We have several English people on the boards.
For the rest of us ignorants (if that's a noun- oh well, I just made it one), could you please detail exactly what horrible injustices England has perpetrated against Ireland lately? Or Scotland, or Wales?
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Post by Heretic on Aug 7, 2007 9:52:03 GMT -5
The Celtic behavior to enemy peoples was considerably superior to that of the Saxons. The Celts had laws in place that ensured that girls who were victims of rape or harassment could find justice. In addition, the Celts often attempted to enter a land peaceably and only drew swords when threatened. I offer the Senones tribe as an example.
The Black and Tans, a British battalion assigned to Ireland, often beat, arrested for little to no reason, raided houses, and generally made life miserable for the North Irish.
If Ontario, for example, was owned by the Americans, would you not desire to be free of their rule? It is the same with Scotland and Wales. They are essentially provinces to england, while they should be sovereign nations in their own right.
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Post by Azrael on Aug 7, 2007 12:50:26 GMT -5
Oh, I see. The British just so happen to be worse than any other of the thousands of nations and empires and kingdoms in the world's history that have done that? And I don't think that 'tons of other countries hate them'. Speak for yourself. Scotland, most of it. Ireland, most of it (I think- I'm not very familiar with Irish culture). But the rest of the world? In any case, I find that while the Celtic resentment over the English treatment of them historically- although I don't believe that to be the case right now- is somewhat justified it is no worse than what the Celts would have done had they won the wars. The Celts were like almost every other people when they were first subjugated- raping, burning, and pillaging as they traveled. Not much to be holier-than-thou about. I am not defending the English occupation of other countries. I am merely putting it in perspective. Let bygones be bygones, and also remember that a country's historical actions do not define its people. We have several English people on the boards. Practically every former English colony besides Canada has some degree of people that despise British Imperialism. Hell....Canada has Quebec. Who hates the British more than the French? At any rate, the Queen would not be safe if she tried to visit Ireland, Scotland, India, tons of provinces in Africa, and anywhere else they owned. Also, while occupying a country and depriving it of all of the things that make it unique is cruel, levying an unbearably high tax during a famine that took bread out of little children's mouths to feed the English ruling class that had been imported is something that I can't find a word for.
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Post by Atheo on Aug 7, 2007 23:03:24 GMT -5
In Northern Europe, the Celts were known with terror as the 'men with long swords', them being the first Northern European people to use iron with their weapons- giving them the capability of longer, stronger swords.
What's done is done. The Queen is not a cruel woman, much as I disapprove of monarchy. I do not defend the British occupation of anyplace, like I said before. If Canada were occupied by America, I would certainly resent it. But America is not a bad country to be governed by, were it come to pass. I could deal with it.
The Queen has a residence in Scotland, where she goes frequently. Have you lived in Ireland, or Scotland? Experienced its culture? Talked to its people? I will not deny that England is not well thought of, but that does not mean the majority of the people want to kill her. She is a good queen. As for Africa, a lot of Africa is quite unstable. Nobody is safe when they go to certain parts of it.
You are railing against a woman who has done none of these things, though her ancestors have. But if you are descended from a Western European, you are almost certainly part English. Family trees spread amazingly fast and large.
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Post by Azrael on Aug 8, 2007 10:35:47 GMT -5
The Queen has a residence in Scotland, where she goes frequently. Have you lived in Ireland, or Scotland? Experienced its culture? Talked to its people? I will not deny that England is not well thought of, but that does not mean the majority of the people want to kill her. She is a good queen. As for Africa, a lot of Africa is quite unstable. Nobody is safe when they go to certain parts of it. You are railing against a woman who has done none of these things, though her ancestors have. But if you are descended from a Western European, you are almost certainly part English. Family trees spread amazingly fast and large. My friend who lived in India for some time says that the Queen wasn't able to complete a visit to a village because her body guards refused to go. The people would have surely killed her. I don't suppose you have ever listened to House of Pain or any other Irish artists. As for my ancestry, all Irish and Welsh with a few Hungarians. It's not all of Western Europe that's part British. It's all of Great Britain that's Western European. British are part Celtic, but mostly a mix from the Anglo tribes, Saxon invaders, and even a good amount of Scandinavian invaders. History is written by the winners. Great Britain won, therefore they wrote their own version of history where they were "taming barbarians for their own good." If the Nazis won, they would have said the same thing.
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Post by radar on Aug 8, 2007 11:04:18 GMT -5
I think that we, as Christians, have the honour and duty to fight against imperialism, be it Roman, British, and in this day, American. I pray that the American Empire is toppled in due time, and that no empire is set up in its place. No people, no tribe, and no nation should be made subject to another. You need to listen to this band.
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Post by Atheo on Aug 8, 2007 16:08:42 GMT -5
Actually, I would say that the winners' history is written by the winners, and the losers' history is written by the losers.
At no time in this discussion have I defended the British invasion. I do not defend any invasion or subjugation. I am simply saying that the distant past can be let go, eventually. Say what you like about Ireland, I am not very knowledgeable about that. But Wales to my knowledge is fine, and so is Scotland. I can't know for sure, but I suspect you are not much more knowledgeable about affairs in countries you have never been to than I am (I'm guessing you have not immersed yourself in Indian, Scottish, Irish, and Welsh cultures).
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Post by Heretic on Aug 8, 2007 16:51:16 GMT -5
THE PSALTERS RIP MY FACE!
Ok, back on topic. The Queen would be safe in Scotland and Wales. As far as I know, neither people has anything against her (except the Scots pointedly call her Queen Elizabeth I, not II, as there was no Queen Elizabeth over Scotland before.) The Welsh have signs in their native tongue that mean "English B*stards Out," but to my knowledge they're not all about shooting the Queen or anything. A lot of Scots are pretty nationalistic, but again, a very small minority if any advocate assassination.
North Ireland is a different matter. Had the Queen visited, say, fifteen years ago, I can well imagine an attempt on her life. Now it would be more of a matter of protests, unless the Real IRA showed up, in which case there would be a bomb and some gunfire exchanged.
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