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Post by davo on Dec 7, 2009 17:30:02 GMT -5
EVERY THREAD ENDS THE SAME NO POINT EVER FAITH = BELIEF WITHOUT LOGICAL EVIDENCE
LOGIC = FACTUAL REASON FOR BELIEFINCOMPATIBLE, IRRECONCILABLE, AND INCONCEIVABLY INDIFFERENT TO EACH OTHER. THEY ARE INDEPENDENT THOUGHT PROCESSES OF EACH OTHER, TWO COMPLETELY SEPARATE OPTIONS IN THE "A" OR "B" MULTIPLE CHOICE TEST THAT IS LIFE. THERE IS NO POINT IN ARGUING, NO POINT IN DEBATING, AND NO POINT IN TRYING TO CONVINCE ONE ANOTHER OF THE IRREFUTABLE PURPOSE IN ADOPTING ONE OR THE OTHER AS THEIR PERSONAL WAY OF DEDUCTION OF WHAT IS TRUE. THEREFORE, I NOW GRACIOUSLY EXTEND TO EVERYONE IN THIS ENTIRE SECTION OF THE FORUM, BEFORE, NOW, AND AFTER, A WARM AND HEARTY SHUT THE f**k UP.I heartily agree with this post. Frankly, Gangrene, it's extremely frustrating to have you posting in this section of the forum. Every single damn post you make is this: "GOD DOESN'T EXIST YOU CAN'T PROVE IT NEEINER NEEINER NEEINER" Feverstone and Co., you're the exact same way, with an opposing view. "GOD DOES EXIST I SAW A GUY ONCE WHO KNEW THAT GOD EXISTED SO THAT PROVES IT NEEINER NEEINER NEEINER". I am a theist. I believe in God. I understand that there is absolutely NO empirical evidence that absolutely proves the existence of God. I accept my faith as FAITH, not knowing whether or not it is real or if I'm just wasting my time. So, in light of what N/A has kindly put forth, as well as the extremely annoying nature of these repeated debates that go in circles, any more debates on God vs. No God that devolve in this direction will be locked. We've all heard it before, so knock it off. Gangrene, try to post in this section without making it your holy crusade to convert all the believers to agnosticism. Feverstone and Co., please try to post in this section without making it YOUR holy crusade to convert Gangrene to theism. All in all, everyone needs to accept everyone else's views here. In doing that, we can have mature and interesting discussions that don't devolve into name calling, insults, and "TEH BURDEN OF PRUF IS ON U!!!" ...and i imagine this is part of why some of the most intelligent debaters that we have had on the boards (specifically Malcolm and Jacob) left.
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Post by Brent on Dec 7, 2009 17:51:12 GMT -5
Guess what? I tried to act in a civilized way, I asked for a sticky request containing that youtube vid. I knew my attempt was going to be in vain because this is a theist forum and that vid does not contain any theist bias whatsoever.
All this bulls**t could have been avoided if you just stickied my thread FERD or DAVO, but nope. You have to have your power trips and do what's in the best interests of yourselves. NOW you decide to step in after I've said for the longest time it's faith vs. logic EVERY TIME.
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Post by Shiv on Dec 7, 2009 17:57:38 GMT -5
Thing is, you can still be totally logical about things based in faith, but it doesn't make it REAL
And REALITY is what we're after here, not logic or reason
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Post by clareabel on Dec 7, 2009 17:57:50 GMT -5
Actually, your "Sticky Request" was turned into one after what original debate there had been was already dead. Besides, this debate has happened a lot before, just with different sources. Josh and Dave weren't acting in their own best interests as far as I can see, they were simply doing what they believed to be right and what they believed would be best for the majority of the boards.
And by the way, unless it's specified, Dave and I never make each other post anything/post for each other. So please don't tell me off for whining to Dave about you being a cock. I thought you were a cock without his help. And if he or any other mod decides to ban me for insulting you, then so be it.
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Post by lastfirstborn on Dec 7, 2009 20:24:51 GMT -5
Thing is, you can still be totally logical about things based in faith, but it doesn't make it REAL And REALITY is what we're after here, not logic or reason Not quite. Logic and scrutiny are pretty much our only hope of knowing the truth.
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Post by Brent on Dec 7, 2009 21:49:37 GMT -5
Thing is, you can still be totally logical about things based in faith, but it doesn't make it REAL And REALITY is what we're after here, not logic or reason Example or gtfo
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Post by feverstone on Dec 7, 2009 22:23:24 GMT -5
Hundreds of accounts that say they saw Jesus after he died. This makes the Christian faith a little more than "blind faith." These witnesses introduce some form of reasoning and logic to the matter... whether they're lying or not.
Many scientists look at fossils, layers of earth, movement of stars (etc.) to come to the conclusion that the Earth is millions of years old. This is logic. Did they watch the process of evolution themselves? Do they know for sure? No, not really.
I honestly don't see where you developed the idea that logic and faith are like oil and water. Just because they are in some cases, that doesn't mean they are in all cases. I'm NOT, as someone said, trying to "convert" you. I can't. I'm not attacking you either. I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind your motto.
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Post by Brent on Dec 7, 2009 23:03:07 GMT -5
this means what to me? hearsay isn't evidence, it isn't logical. Nice try.
I know what you're saying, there is belief with evidence and there is belief w/o evidence Beaverphone, I should have been more clear earlier, I thought it was obvious that faith is not logical because it is without evidence, guess I can't assume ANYTHING while arguing here.
What motto? My sig??
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Post by feverstone on Dec 7, 2009 23:30:49 GMT -5
this means what to me? hearsay isn't evidence, it isn't logical. Nice try. Not so nice try on your part. Hundreds of witnesses proclaiming the same thing and dying tragically for it is far from hearsay. If you take a modern, dull-minded approach to the Bible and say, "Hey l00k, just found a bookz taht says this d00d rose from being died!!1" Then yes, you could label its contents as merely hearsay. No, you're just using the wrong terms. "Blind faith" is illogical. Flippantly using the term "faith" is where you cease to make sense...because you aren't specifically saying if there is evidence or not. "Faith is illogical."
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Post by lastfirstborn on Dec 7, 2009 23:34:40 GMT -5
What is faith if it isn't blind? "Faith" caused by logic is reasoning/scrutiny, not faith.
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Post by feverstone on Dec 7, 2009 23:38:42 GMT -5
Blind faith is leaping out into the darkness for no reason whatsoever. Faith (for example) is someone else telling you that they did it and were caught. You have faith in that person. Is that completely and utterly illogical?
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Post by Brent on Dec 7, 2009 23:43:26 GMT -5
Ok, looks like I have to go allllllllll the way back and clear this s**t up since I guess it wasn't clear enough.
There is hearsay that Jesus rose from the dead. There are DEAD witnesses who claim this. This means s**t in the context of saying Jesus is Lord. It means NOTHING because THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE OR DISPROVE GOD, NOT IN THE BRONZE AGE, AND NOT TO THIS PRESENT DAY.
Now we're arguing definitions ABOUT FAITH. Faith IN A GOD is illogical, because GOD must be SUPERNATURAL/SPIRITUAL WHATEVER, SO THERE'S NO EVIDENCE!!!!!
I have faith Gravity exists, I have faith in evolution because THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THESE THEORIES. THEY ARE MEASURABLE VIA SCIENTIFIC MEANS
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Post by feverstone on Dec 8, 2009 0:00:54 GMT -5
There is hearsay that Jesus rose from the dead. There are DEAD witnesses who claim this. This means s**t in the context of saying Jesus is Lord. What? Are you making this stuff up as you go along? Once everyone who survived the holocaust has died, will that suddenly subtract from its validity and label it ludicrous? As a Christian, I can't find it in myself to agree with this. It puts my belief system equal to that of children who believe in the Easter Bunny. Personally, I consider the beginning of the universe, human consciousness, individual experiences, the complexity of nature, etc... and cannot contemplate this world's existence without a higher form of being. Is this way of reasoning illogical? I don't think it is. And that's all I can really say on that particular subject without sounding like a broken brent record.
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Post by feverstone on Dec 8, 2009 0:09:59 GMT -5
EDIT: There's probably people in the middle of replying, so I won't change my post. I can see that my point isn't very clear. I'm sort of jumping in here while I'm studying for finals and busy not sleeping. Either have at me, or just ignore me. I'm simply not spending time on developing my arguments and I apologize for roiling this up again.
I'll be back later this week if it's still going.
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runny
New Member
I am cool or something.
Posts: 11
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Post by runny on Dec 8, 2009 0:12:40 GMT -5
Basically you guys don't have any debating skillz so you have to look tough by saying you don't give a f**kKKK Honestly, If your gonna say that, you are just WANTING a debate, Plainly, I dont give a rats ass about debating religion.
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