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Post by Patrick on Aug 15, 2010 19:23:55 GMT -5
Try to wrap your mind around this scripture:
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9)"
What does this mean?
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Post by Muffy on Aug 15, 2010 19:28:02 GMT -5
Isn't that talking about Jesus?
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Post by Patrick on Aug 15, 2010 19:29:03 GMT -5
In my understanding it's talking about Jesus and also everyone who excepts His sacrifice and is "born again".
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Post by Radiant Magnificence Alastair on Aug 16, 2010 5:07:00 GMT -5
If you don't think Christians can sin, then you really don't understand what sin is.
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Post by Maarten on Aug 16, 2010 6:02:51 GMT -5
My understanding is that this scripture is saying that when a person becomes a Christian and is reborn, there will be a change of lifestyle and they will not continue to live in sin as they used to. It does not mean the person will never ever commit a sin anymore, but that he will not continue to sin as he used to. When a person is born again a process of sancification will start in that persons life and he will continue to stop his former sins and start to live more holy. However, whether a state where one does not sin at all can be achieved in this life, I doubt.
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Post by Muffy on Aug 16, 2010 10:36:11 GMT -5
Ok, I think you should have included the surrounding verses.
7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
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Post by Azrael on Aug 26, 2010 19:04:17 GMT -5
Try to wrap your mind around this scripture: "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9)" What does this mean? The correct translation of "sin" in this context is "live in sin." Although Christians sin with everybody else, their lives are not lived through the lens of sin. |
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Post by Maarten on Aug 27, 2010 7:52:19 GMT -5
The correct translation of "sin" in this context is "live in sin." Although Christians sin with everybody else, their lives are not lived through the lens of sin. Do you mean the correct interpretation or the correct translation? As in, do you think it's correctly interpeted as 'living in sin', or do you think the original Greek is correctly translated as such? |
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Post by althrioan on Aug 27, 2010 8:53:58 GMT -5
I've read these verses yesterday and was also wondering because it said that those who still sinning are reigned by the devil - more distracting: are disciples of the devil.
Azraels opinion helps a lot because it's the WILL to live without sin other way we all would be going to hell ... and aren't allowed to have community with god
Edit: Everytime I think about the nature of sin and the consequences for us humans I come to the conclusion that it is really important what your "heart" is thinking and which attitude towards sinning and your heart has. That doesn't mean we can do what we want but we have to accept that we must loathe sin (and even if it seems pleasuring for the moment ...)
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Post by tohellwithhades on Aug 30, 2010 20:49:02 GMT -5
Of course Christians can [and do] sin. The only difference between "us" and "everyone else" is that we--through God's grace--recognize our sinful nature, have asked for forgiveness through Jesus Christ, and strive to live in Christ the best we can.
To say Christians don't or can't sin is to deny what the Gospel says about the human condition and the crucial concept of grace.
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Post by Azrael on Sept 1, 2010 19:54:17 GMT -5
The correct translation of "sin" in this context is "live in sin." Although Christians sin with everybody else, their lives are not lived through the lens of sin. Do you mean the correct interpretation or the correct translation? As in, do you think it's correctly interpeted as 'living in sin', or do you think the original Greek is correctly translated as such? I'm not fluent in Greek, but I'm willing to make a large wager that this was the original phrase. If it is not the literal translation, it is certainly correct by the surrounding context and interpretation thereof. Scripture talks a lot about nonbelievers being "bound in sin" and this verse seems to be in line with the sanctification of man by God and the breaking of these bonds. I checked with my NASB with the Greek interpretative annotations, and the verse reads "No one who is born of God practices sin because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9" The annotation reads "His Seed: The picture is of human reproduction in which the sperm (Greek for "seed" is sperma) bears the life principle and transfers the paternal characteristics. Cannot Sin: Not a complete cessation of sin, but a life that is not characterized by sin." My text also directs the reader to three passages for interpretation. The first is 1 John 3:6 where it says "No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows him." This seems to confirm it is about lifestyle. Next is 1 John 5:18 "We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him." Finally we hit1 Peter 1:23 "for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is through the living and enduring word of God." Each of these in turn have their own corroborative verses that help to interpret them. I'm a big fan of interpreting scripture with scripture. It's like Sudoku except with words. I think the context of the corroborative verses and the commentary by the annotations makes it clear that this is a declaration of death to the world and the ways of sin and rebirth into a unique relationship with the spirit of God. |
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Post by Maarten on Sept 2, 2010 9:33:21 GMT -5
Ah, I wasn't critizing your interpretation, in fact, I agreed (and still agree) with you to begin with. I do think it is important to make a clear difference between what the Greek literally says and how we interpret it to be meant, even if the interpretation is generally accepted and/or obvious.
I know (ancient) Greek reasonably well and it just says 'sin' not 'live in sin'. But as I said al ready, I do interpret it the same way you do and I'm quite sure that's the correct interpretation ;D.
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Post by scribe on Sept 9, 2010 21:14:43 GMT -5
two of the best posters resurrected in the same thread
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Post by dlectronic on Sept 12, 2010 3:22:58 GMT -5
two of the best posters resurrected in the same thread qft. Azrael is a man. |
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Post by Azrael on Sept 14, 2010 20:11:30 GMT -5
The Greek means live in sin. John uses the present tense which conveys the sense of a continual act. The easiest way to interpret this is to say "live in sin." Ha. Somebody owes me money. |
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