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Baptism
Jan 18, 2005 15:30:15 GMT -5
Post by drumelin on Jan 18, 2005 15:30:15 GMT -5
I believed ever since I can remember that baptism is not essential in order to get to Heaven. I have believed that repenting and putting your faith in Jesus Christ is the only thing that saves you, and that baptism is important, but isn't necessary to enter Heaven. I have learned it to be a profession of faith to other believers. However, this topic was brought up in school with a friend of mine who says that Bible supports the fact that baptism is required to enter Heaven. He says you have to get "saved", baptized, and live a life pleasing to God....something like that....and so i looked up some verses, and i can't find anything that disproves what he has told me....i actually found this.... 1 Peter 3:20-22 (NIV) ...who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also–not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand–with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
This says that baptism saves you...so i'm kinda confused now that i think about it...i mean i've given my life to Jesus and have been baptized...but this makes me curious...anywho hit me up with some thoughts
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Baptism
Jan 19, 2005 16:45:00 GMT -5
Post by Jacob Lance (EpitomeParadox) on Jan 19, 2005 16:45:00 GMT -5
You don't want to know my opinion, and I don't want to go into it. It'd start too much controversy.
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Baptism
Jan 19, 2005 16:49:34 GMT -5
Post by Jacob Lance (EpitomeParadox) on Jan 19, 2005 16:49:34 GMT -5
I will say this, and I don't mean to offend anyone here...so sorry if I do but, I believe that more people should listen to their instinctual feelings and beliefs instead of just concentrating on a book that can be misinterpreted. I think we're naturally programmed to have a sense and our own beliefs. Of course then you could argue that it's human nature to want to take the easiest possible route...
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Ender
Junior Member
The Sentinel
Posts: 84
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Baptism
Jan 19, 2005 16:54:01 GMT -5
Post by Ender on Jan 19, 2005 16:54:01 GMT -5
Yes, It's free will.
But using instinctual feelings can also mean feeling, by instinct, to put your trust, belief, concentration, etc.. on anything of that sort. It's just the way a person lives, what codes or morals he or she may want to ever live by, which in the first place they got from the instinct of free will.
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Baptism
Jan 19, 2005 17:06:37 GMT -5
Post by Solid on Jan 19, 2005 17:06:37 GMT -5
I was baptized in water, so I wondered what you were wondering too...someone just told me I was baptized in water because that is how Jesus was baptized. It symbolizes that you want to be like Jesus. That's what I was told.
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Baptism
Jan 19, 2005 20:58:26 GMT -5
Post by drumelin on Jan 19, 2005 20:58:26 GMT -5
I will say this, and I don't mean to offend anyone here...so sorry if I do but, I believe that more people should listen to their instinctual feelings and beliefs instead of just concentrating on a book that can be misinterpreted. I think we're naturally programmed to have a sense and our own beliefs. Of course then you could argue that it's human nature to want to take the easiest possible route... What you say about instinctual feelings actually makes sense because God created us to fellowship with him. It is natural for us to seek a Supreme Being, but that's where so many go wrong. God showed us how to get to him by sending his son to die, and giving us the Bible to live by. People try to find their own way to God, and that doesn't work...You can't just rely on your own made up beliefs...they won't get you anywhere. well actually they will..incorrect beliefs will buy a person a one way ticket to hell...
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Baptism
Jan 21, 2005 1:02:21 GMT -5
Post by underoath13 on Jan 21, 2005 1:02:21 GMT -5
there are some verses that might seem confusing and even contradicting in the bible...but baptism does not save you...the bible clearly states that baptism is a step of obedience...i have a study NIV bible and i will post some of the notes that it has to understand more the verses....i'll start first with the verse you posted 1 peter 3:20-22 water symbolizes baptism. There is a double figure here. The flood was a figure of baptism in that in both instances the water that spoke of judgment (in the flood the death of the wicked, in baptism the death of Christ and the believer) is the water that saves. Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it depicts Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences (see Romans 6:4) now saves you also. In reality, believers are saved by what baptism symbolizes - Christ's death and resurrection. The symbol and reality are so closely related that the symbol is sometimes used to refer to the reality
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Baptism
Jan 21, 2005 1:24:39 GMT -5
Post by underoath13 on Jan 21, 2005 1:24:39 GMT -5
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... ----- God's grace alone is what saves us. -- Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemmed --- it says that you'll be condemmed if you don't believe, it doesn't say you'll be condemmed if you don't get baptized. --- like my pastor has said many times...baptism is a step of obedience which has to be genuine and it symbolises salvation...it's like being married, you can be married and prove it to ppl with the wedding ring and then again you can lie to ppl by taking it off...it doesnt mean you're not married just because you took it off...you're still married....same with salvation, if you're saved when you get baptized is publicly declearing that you're saved but if you're not 'baptized it doesnt mean that you're not saved.
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Alan
New Member
Posts: 43
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Baptism
Jan 21, 2005 1:32:42 GMT -5
Post by Alan on Jan 21, 2005 1:32:42 GMT -5
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Baptism
Jan 21, 2005 1:54:40 GMT -5
Post by underoath13 on Jan 21, 2005 1:54:40 GMT -5
hmm...interesting discussion...maybe you can make a thread about that topic so that we dont get off topic here
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Baptism
Jan 21, 2005 9:31:25 GMT -5
Post by JohnnyMetal on Jan 21, 2005 9:31:25 GMT -5
Oh, it's been interesting allright. I have my viewpoints about that thread but I'll be nice and not state them here. I was baptized as a baby but have never done the believer's baptism since coming back to God. I've had a couple times where I felt the urge but then realized I wasn't doing it out of faith but obligation. I guess that was a hint of legalism coming out in me.
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Baptism
Jan 25, 2005 0:51:31 GMT -5
Post by Justincredible on Jan 25, 2005 0:51:31 GMT -5
I think in that verse from 1 Peter its important not to glance over a few words... specifically the part where it says "this water SYMBOLIZES the baptism that now saves you- not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God". OK the baptism that saves is identified here... its "the pledge of a good conscience toward God".
This is an example of not jumping to an assiociation when you read a word. Most people read the word "baptism" and they immediately think "water". Well baptism also refers to the baptism of the holy spirit, which is when someone accepts Christ. Eph. 1:13 "having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit". So what that verse is actually saying is, water symbolizes your rebirth through the Holy Spirit, which IS what saves you.
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Baptism
Jan 25, 2005 17:00:14 GMT -5
Post by Laura on Jan 25, 2005 17:00:14 GMT -5
I've been baptized. Back in June of 1999.
Baptism is not necessary for salvation, I don't think. It's a public profession of your faith. At least that's what I've always thought, I could be wrong...
Where's Wisdom when you need him?? hahahahaha
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Baptism
Jan 26, 2005 7:26:34 GMT -5
Post by JohnnyMetal on Jan 26, 2005 7:26:34 GMT -5
It is a public profession of faith in Christ. But you can be baptized and still not be saved.
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Baptism
Jan 26, 2005 11:27:42 GMT -5
Post by Wisdom on Jan 26, 2005 11:27:42 GMT -5
I've been baptized. Back in June of 1999. Baptism is not necessary for salvation, I don't think. It's a public profession of your faith. At least that's what I've always thought, I could be wrong... Where's Wisdom when you need him?? hahahahaha I have studied this at length but for now I just want to touch on it breifly. If you are particularly stumped by this issue send me a PM. Baptism is the sign of the New Covenant just like circumcision was the sign of the Old. Those born into bloodline of the promise in the OT were to be circumcised. Likewise those who are born into the promise now are to be baptized. In light of all of the effort Paul put into making it plain that the it is not circumcision that saves you, it is clear that Baptism cannot either.
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