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Post by Van Zan on Oct 11, 2009 14:09:51 GMT -5
I are superlogic atheist. I are make no assumptions. Or are I? Video has alot of big words. Video is built on the same misunderstandings of theism that most atheism circle jerks around.
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Post by Jacob on Oct 11, 2009 15:50:03 GMT -5
Video has alot of big words.
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Post by tohellwithhades on Oct 11, 2009 20:47:00 GMT -5
But what if that theoreticized divine being revealed Himself to me? This would mean it is intrested in this universe, intrested in mankind, and still exists, and is able to make contact with me, aware of our tiny planet. And if, living in a relationship with that divine being He shows Himself to be kind and loving to me, I could also get in insight in His nature. I can verify all of the above statements. So either God exists, I am hallucinating, or I'm being deceived by aliens. Here faith kicks in to choose for the first option, because I have no indication of the second two. Congrats, you can verify all the above, but I can't. Personal experience is fallacious. I see no point in trying to show something does not exist when without its existence there is no point / meaning. If in the end we are all doomed to death / our entire existence will decease how can a meaning exist? Without God, why would there be any basis for me to "treat" others in a good manner if there is no benefit to me (or I guess you could even say my offspring) in the end? Would there ever be any justifiable reason to be good to another human who is a total stranger totally nonrelated to me? I guess what I'm trying to ask is what is the basis for practicing morality without the existence of God. Who said there was a meaning of life? It's a completely man-made concept. You treat others the way you want to be treated. It justifies life, we as human beings have the power of critical thinking, even animals work together. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_moralityOMG WIKI OMG UNRELIABLE It comes down to what you think is right vs. wrong. Subjective vs. objective, etc. We've discussed this stuff Personal experience is not fallacious, I think you just like to flex that word.
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Post by Van Zan on Oct 11, 2009 21:18:20 GMT -5
But he took a logic class in highschool.
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Post by Brent on Oct 11, 2009 21:30:20 GMT -5
Personal experience is fallacious. Why is personal experience fallacious? Also, this video is quite hypocritical, it blaims theïsts for being annoying about their religion, but for most theïsts this video does just that, only with a non-theïst world view. Let's argue this for the millionth time! this isn't being stickied as it's just going to turn into yet another existence of God debate. you do realize that video makes pretty much all religion argument worthless. But yeah we wouldn't want any bad talk about God on a Christian forum!
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Post by Josh on Oct 11, 2009 22:31:12 GMT -5
Religion=/=Faith.
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Post by blacksmith on Oct 11, 2009 22:51:29 GMT -5
Brent: Isn't the video perversely hypocritical?
What I get from that video is that everyone who has the belief in God (or gods...) is wrong because they do not have evidence to back up their beliefs. And they can't get the evidence.
The exact same logic could be turned right round.
Atheists have a belief that there is no God (or gods...). But they don't have to provide proof? Why? They want me to provide proof that my God exists? I want them to provide proof that He does not exist.
Someone could make the same video (with the same fancy graphics) and direct it at atheists.
I think its a stalemate.
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Post by Muffy on Oct 12, 2009 2:14:47 GMT -5
I agree that you shouldn't force your beliefs on others, that's what I got out of most of the arguments. But having faith in something isn't doing an harm is it? What the hell is wrong with believing in something that may or may not exist? Just because I believe in God, doesn't mean that I'm condemning all atheists to hell.
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Post by Brent on Oct 12, 2009 2:39:22 GMT -5
Brent: Isn't the video perversely hypocritical? What I get from that video is that everyone who has the belief in God (or gods...) is wrong because they do not have evidence to back up their beliefs. And they can't get the evidence. The exact same logic could be turned right round. Atheists have a belief that there is no God (or gods...). But they don't have to provide proof? Why? They want me to provide proof that my God exists? I want them to provide proof that He does not exist. Someone could make the same video (with the same fancy graphics) and direct it at atheists. I think its a stalemate. I think so too. Agnosticism is the best.
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Post by Maarten on Oct 12, 2009 9:42:45 GMT -5
Let's argue this for the millionth time! Let's. I agree personal experience could be considered fallicious; human memory certainly isn't infallible, nor is their reasoning, nor their perception, thus how they interpret their experience could be considered fallicious. However, this would also deem (human) logic fallicious, since it's built upon human reasoning and perception and experience, which all are far from infallible. Who knows if some philosopher will have a major breakthrough in the field of logics some time in the future, completely revolutionizing how we perceive logic? If you call personal experience fallicious, because humans can fail, any argument conjured up by humans is fallicious, because humans can and will fail. WE KNOW NOTHING WIR DECEIVED BY ALIENZX0rZ OMGOMG!!!111 Now, since you seem to know more about logic than I do, please do explain me why I am wrong, because this issue certainly hasn't been discussed a million times with me.
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Post by Jeremy on Oct 12, 2009 10:15:02 GMT -5
agreed.
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Post by Brent on Oct 12, 2009 15:35:57 GMT -5
Let's argue this for the millionth time! Let's. I agree personal experience could be considered fallicious; human memory certainly isn't infallible, nor is their reasoning, nor their perception, thus how they interpret their experience could be considered fallicious. However, this would also deem (human) logic fallicious, since it's built upon human reasoning and perception and experience, which all are far from infallible. Who knows if some philosopher will have a major breakthrough in the field of logics some time in the future, completely revolutionizing how we perceive logic? If you call personal experience fallicious, because humans can fail, any argument conjured up by humans is fallicious, because humans can and will fail. WE KNOW NOTHING WIR DECEIVED BY ALIENZX0rZ OMGOMG!!!111 Now, since you seem to know more about logic than I do, please do explain me why I am wrong, because this issue certainly hasn't been discussed a million times with me. We've beaten this to death. I never said you were wrong, I cannot prove or disprove your personal experience. Only you can try and prove it to yourself, it is logical to you but not logical to me.
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Post by Brent on Nov 14, 2009 3:00:57 GMT -5
sticky please
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Post by alastairjohnjack on Nov 14, 2009 8:33:10 GMT -5
Please ask an admin/moderator in a private message next time (perhaps ask Wisdom or Davo).
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Post by Maarten on Nov 14, 2009 8:38:04 GMT -5
it is logical to you but not logical to me. A friend of mine, she had one leg a little bit shorter than the other, causing her to have a back ache.... when praying I see her shorter leg growing with my own eyes, it ain't logical to you I get some faith?
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